Speedy recovery, Alan. A member of our motorcycle group was taken out by a car many years ago and had to have one of those Ilizarov frames. Never have I seen a more gruesome piece of kit. However, it saved his lower leg from being amputated which was a result.

I think Nick is either giving us TMI or possibly TLI.

"Can't feel or wiggle toes atm". Don't worry Alan, JJ won't pick you until you're fully fit.l, so don't rush back. And then he'll probably play you as a wing back anyway. 😉

A good and swift recovery Alan

Maybe relegate Man City to NW Counties League?

Wish you a speedy recovery, Alan.

Facebook has just told me that 12 years ago I spent the evening in a forest with lots of (large) naked American people including some women locked in cages and some wearing frozen underwear (and nothing else) in a place that I believe Bert is familiar with Atwood TN.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to my favourite wup Gimp:-)

Thats life

RIP Esther Rantzen

He’s alive! ALIVE!

Hope your recovery is smooth AIoW.

Yes all the best Alan.

Good to hear, Alan. Best of luck with the recovery now.

I'm back...all is good, can't feel or wiggle toes atm, whilst nerve blocks are in place. Microbiologist was keen to get my scribe for use in research both for images and readings. Promised to link me in on this.

Imagine how much you'd laugh at a Stoke fan asking you "Do you remember when we won the Cup in 2011?"

What is the appropriate points each season? Enough to make sure they didn't win? Presumably not enough to relegate them as then you'd have to imagine the Championship for the next season. I agree with Trigger, the punishment is about the future not trying to rewrite the past.

Yeah I don’t disagree with the logic Lurker I’m looking at it more in terms of if the EFL came to us and said because of (a lot of) cheating in the 2018/19 season we were actually L1 champions… so what? Stick in the record books I wouldn’t feel like anything had actually changed at all. Wouldn’t exactly pop a cork to celebrate.

When the team that “won” systemically cheated for a decade and continued to benefit from it for another decade, more or less, I don’t think you can say “knowing they didn’t win it”. Personally I think if they applied the relevant points penalty every season then if someone else wins the league that way, they won the league and not the cheating bastards.

I would doubt any club’s fans other than Arsenal would want to be handed a piece of paper that told them they won a cup or a title in x year when they know fine well they didn’t. Winning things is about the joy of doing so. City’s punishment therefore needs to be future-facing not history-amending. Make it nigh on impossible for them to win anything for half a decade at least and have them languish in the championship bottom half during that time. That way no other clubs have to miss out on promotion because a behemoth has been put into their division and allowed to carry on as before.

DO - You are rewriting history to something that didn't happen. No league or cup did take place without City in it, so nobody can know who would have won it. Luckily I think the authorities would be loath to do so.

REPD can i ask what year your IX20 is and is it a good car?

Tomato as others have said get a garage to basically try to break it if you can’t get a replacement key. I had similar and luckily found mine (ironically on a 2006 Nissan Note). Which was very lucky as every garage I spoke to basically said getting one of them off is tricky. All 4 has a high failure rate.

Yes. Fingers crossed for Alan, who is a long way from home too.

OI - you are retrospectively removing Man City from each competition. They are therefore removed at whatever stage they reached. In leagues, everyone below them moves up a place. In cups, it only actually affects anything if Man City won that cup.