Lurker I said that in exasperation rather than something I believe. Another nailed on penalty yesterday is ridiculous after decisions we’ve Had in recent games

I think Wu is trying to say that no matter how much money Ardley is given, he keeps signing absolute duds

And didn't someone post a comparison or something last season that showed our budget wouldn't even be an automatic promotion budget in L2??

Wu you are sounding as though you assume we got an increase in budget and no one else did. We have moved nowhere in the budget table we are still way below half the clubs in this division and below most of the other half. Even Wycombe and Luton have constantly been shown as having a higher budget. So why would he do any better when all we have done is to remain one of the lowest payers in league 1? How does that enable us to attract proven L1 players? We're still having to take a punt on players not wanted at other L1 clubs and non league players. Nothing has actually changed.

Our problem in the last two summers has been signing strikers. They are the most valued players so our low budget is going to be a big issue. Although our budget has gone up I am sure many others will have done as well. Last season I believe we were 21st in the budget league so it will be interesting to see where we are this season.

I suspect most of our rivals have had an increase in budget and that this year's budget still keeps us firmly in the bottom quarter of L1 clubs

The fact we are faced with the same old problems this season despite an increase in budget and a total squad revamp has sealed Ardley’s rating as average, for me.

Any average manager would have kept us up in the season he took over, so I’m not minded to give him too much credit for that. He has subsequently had good runs and bad runs. He was above average following promotion to L1, but has subsequently been average at best. We were perilously close to relegation last season which would have returned us to the same league he started in, so hard to argue he is much above average.

I didn't say it was remarkable I said it was above average. As for the increased budget surely he has earnt that with a promotion and then keeping us up for 2 years?

Yes remarkable achievement without any increase in budget.

WU, you say Ardley is doing an average job. When he took over we were near the bottom of L2 and we are now mid table in L1. I think that is an above average performance.

But in some quarters we are still viewed as a non league club punching above our weight. I agree though in some cases you do have to separate shite by design from just not very good at their job and having a badly day etc. I suspect there are officials around by the way who do view Gillingham as an established L1 club and us as L2 strugglers, there are plenty of fans and pundits who do.

Lurker, I can believe it against Sunderland, and maybe Barnsley, but not Gillingham and then Accrington and Wycombe must be faring even worse than us, let's see if we get all the contentious decisions in our favour when we play them. I don't remember referees favouring us versus Morecambe or Dagenham for example.

OI I think fans say bias meaning it is personal as opposed to what I honestly think happens which is bias meaning the officials will have a preconception of what they will be dealing with, ability of each side etc and make conscious and subconscious decisions that favour those preconceptions. Bearing in mind we all do that why would league 1 level refs be Gods among us and not do it?

I wanna see Jervis given a decent run out on Saturday against a dodgy Scunny defence.

Firstly, if you look at forums, referees are biased against every club in the league, not sure who they are biased towards. Secondly 'evening out' doesn't mean we'll get more decisions in our favour in the future, just that if bad decisions are truly random, the percentage against us will tend towards 50% in the long term. If the first 10 decisions go 9:1 against you and then the next 10 go 6:4 against you, the percentage against you has dropped from 90% to 75%.

OK thanks for the clarification but it wasn't what you said in the previous post ("There is no difference between loaning a player from a higher division club or being their feeder club ...") . To me there is an enormous difference between having a number of loans and becoming a feeder club. It would be nice if we were producing more home grown players but as has been pointed out the academy is still catching up and actually produces as many players as most academies at our level do.

Dondog I don't buy that evens itself out stuff. We'll get one dodgy decision go our way and everyone will say there you go but 1=/= 6 against. I think again it is our place that as a club favoured for relegation we won't get decisions we should.

Silk other thing worth considering is that some of those signings, e.g. Watson are possibly on last chance to prove themselves or could be released so a loan could turn into a signing come end of season. Sort of a prolonged probation period.

How many more clear penalty shouts and bad decisions have to go against us before we get the rub of the green? Surely that’s our lot for this season?

Silk I agree we've relied a little too much on "experienced pros" who are very hit and miss but relying on loans is how successful clubs are working at our level and the one above. We have don a better job with recruitment this summer in terms of longer term quality but we have to recognise that we will lose those guys when they prove themselves. That is our place in the scheme of things. My issue would be that bar keeper we have not done that well with loans and need to improve that. I'm not sure being a feeder helps cos we could easily end up with an up and down club that signs the same kind of turkeys as we sign without their input. It would only work if a big EPL club saw us as step 2 of 3 through leagues and used a club in each division to get a player ready for prem level. But then chances are all we'd get are teens who are ok a L2 level but not going to boost us.

I must have missed the announcement that Tim Sherwood has been appointed as chairman of the EFL, FA, M&S, B&Q and KFC

I am talking squad wise not off the field. In the summer we are going to have to replace four of our back five. Are you saying that is a good position to be in? When we know that all transfers at any level are hit and miss?

I think every EFL team should be made to play a wardrobe in midfield for 80% of matches.......

We are not in a mess right now. The club is prudently run and we are about to realise the dream of a generation and move home. We have an average manager doing an average job.