I certainly remember that away game at Hoi An and was traumatised by it

I’ve met a couple of “sad Vietnam veterans” - fair to say their trauma is a tad more real than that of those still obsessing about that 3 man decision… 😯

5 years to the day since Steve Seddon’s last minute header in the 2-2 at Luton and 30 years since the 4-2 win at SwinDon in the top flight

Freeview 232

Thks Mags, interesting discussion

Ah, you mean the 2002 zealots, KD.

Ferret, it’s hard given what a number of us having been saying for months/years not to sit on our high horses and say ‘I told you so’. We all received a huge deluge of abuse when trying to raise our heads above the parapet with some (myself included) having to remove ourselves from social media platforms and Proboards. We didn’t get it all right and I learnt a number of lessons when raising the VONC that I wish I’d known beforehand. Although I think our end aims maybe be somewhat different I’m just very grateful that more members have begun to see the light.

Football governance second reading live on bbc parliament now, for those that may be interested.

Hannah, in my view was the only one to come out of that meeting with any respect.

Its not solely about attending meetings, it’s how they speak up in the best interests of the DT and more general, the interests of the club at heart, it’s when they state in their manifestos that they are going to be the voice of the fans and all of a sudden once on the board, they get laringytes which annoys me, at least Hannah has a voice and is not one of the sheep.

Kevin's meeting attendance is pretty good, there are a few others with a slightly worse record. Graeme is a very good attender generally, but even he missed three of five meetings recently. Kevin I think has only missed two since start of 2023 and made the effort to attend two others remotely.

Yes, it is quite Thatcher-esque. Shock treatment to a moribund society.

KD - I think the way the debt refinancing and in particular 50%+1 has been handled is actually pretty good (at least in relation to low expectations): engagement over time; a sense of a developing plan; trying to show there isn't just one option but that we need two or three to solve the challenge; staggering the votes so the persuasion effort can be won; etc. It is in stark contrast to the DT-ST thing which, as you point out, has some merits, but the DTB have failed to make a single convincing argument and steam rollered vocal opposition.

In other words, they are saving us from ourselves by ramming things through. Maybe.

Little and co. have been more than a little slippery but she'll have her eyes firmly on our financial position and the £10m+ debt we need to service.

I think there is certainly a version of things where what you say would be right and I would support it, but I don't think that is the place we are in. The whole thing has been too evasive and the tactics too underhanded for me to believe that.

Sort of agree. The direction of travel is simultaneously more fan ownership via the DT but less day-to-day DT power (notwithstanding that ultimate control remains with the DT and its members). I think that's a good thing.

No, it's a direction of travel away from members (however they are recruited) having any say.

I wouldn't be surprised if more use was made of one-sided surveys rather than actual members' votes; more decisions were presented simplistically rather than with detailed analysis; more meaningless decisions.

The ultimate power - ownership - wrests with DT members. That doesn't change. How DT members are enrolled is a secondary issue.

KD - it really isn't. It's about where power and control live and whether fans can exercise any or not.

Ollie Palmer [Link]

All comes back to what I told OI the other day: this is just bedwetting from people who have PTSD from 2002.

What is the point of WISA when, essentially, every fan will be a voting member of the society that owns their football club? How much more of a voice can the fans truly have?

We have a constitution, which probably needs updating, we have some life members and also active members. Also have some new members. It’s important we fans have a fans voice on the board. Brian Lomax taught me that. Right now I don’t think we have that.