You'd think the way the fans owned trust and club board behave that the club was actually owned by an irrational and selfish owner, you know, the type that the enshriner zealots peddle fear about....

I'm a great believer in data. Show us how long before a game people buy tickets and if there really is significant demand three weeks out then maybe given our financial situation there need to be changes, though not necessarily this exact one.

KT2, I'd imagine the WHAD boys were sufficiently traumatised enough by Gateshead to take a week out and not re-live that again.

Morning peeps, Silk the problem with your last comment about being fair to both parties is that when one group, fans, are being penalised by decisions that clearly break the terms agreed on purchasing. It is compounded the a fans group, apparently representing fans, go against that breach, who mediates that. Everyone understands that there is an under attendance in person problem damages on the day match revenues, but the administration of this needs to remember, underfunding issues originally was the reason this scheme was invented to start with.

I am a ST holder and also have a debenture - zero impact for me. The debenture gave the club lots of money upfront. So am surprised there is a short term memory loss on the benefit to the club. Why doesn't the club offer to buy out the debenture at a discount or convert to a ST or even a bond? It is simply a paper move, rather than a financial one for the club.

The West Ham FA cup game is right up there for me as well. Ticked all the right boxes, superb giant slaying performance under the lights, cold winter evening, great atmosphere. Also meeting Vinny in the bar afterwards, and jeering David Gold as he tried to get out of the KM car park in his rolls. In some ways it was the peak of the AFCW @ KM era.

Also just because something is in the terms and conditions does not make it legally enforceable especially with finances. To be enforceable it has to be fair to both parties and easily understood by someone with no legal knowledge. We have seen refunds on endowment mortgages and car loans and diesel cars because of this.

Unless there was a section in the terms and conditions signed by the fan who took up the debenture that stated the notice date could be changed by the club then the club would be breaking the terms of the contract and you ask for a refund - probably pro-rated.

Naz is right about the Burnley game, it was unique in that it was so utterly unexpected. Felt like we were on a magic carpet ride right the way through to the Selhurst replay.

We are 'legacy fans' now. Fuck 'em.

Beautifully put, Trig.

Guess it’s a balance - you feel like you don’t/shouldn’t want or need a contract or terms and conditions when you’re doing your best to help the football club you love survive and/or progress. But what happens when “the football club” as a financial entity ends up being a small group of people who don’t seem to love you back or Eve give a damn what you think or feel?

Trigger - it was Covid and the chaos of new stadium opening, there was never any real contract given to holders. The club was desperate for money. I would suggest, given that it is still desperate for money, a better plan might have been to see if debenture holders wanted to extend for another 5-10 years, at a jacked up price, rather than to piss us all off.

Sounds like a check your contract kind of thing.

Was it £1,000? I may be misremembering the price.

And we paid £1,000 for him having the privilege of not having to decide until a few days before.

Debenture holders have the option of buying game by game, with the certainty that their seat is available. They originally had until five (I think) days before the game to decide whether they wanted to go or not. Then it was increased to eight. Now it's three weeks. My son rarely knows his plans that far in advance. Not because he does shift work but because it's competing with whatever else might be going on on a given Saturday.

I’m not a debenture holder - could someone explain why the increase in days is a bad thing?

As I've had no email, could someone advise when this comes into effect please? Obviously Wigan is less than 21 days away.

Obviously the debenture stuff is absolutely fucking outrageous. Also, I have received no such email.

Well done to Reading for beating Stevenage 1-0 this evening 😬👏

It would be interesting to see when tickets are typically sold for matches. The change doesn't affect me as I have an ST but I'm not sure what proportion of non ST holders want to buy three weeks in advance, I'd have thought between 1 and 2 weeks would be the peak. So if they have the data show us, if they don't have it they damn well should have it.

Can’t count it sparty as you well know 🤣 but also it shouldn’t have been needed and ultimately lead to nothing.

Ex Don, Jaakko Oksanen (it's his 25th birthday tomorrow) scored the 3rd goal in a 3-1 win for KUPS v Slovan Bratislava tonight.

Trigger - I thought your favourite would've been away to Curzon Ashton. 😉